from 1900 to 3008

I was never particularly good at Mormon dating. Making it to 29 as an active Mormon woman proves this. Even though I wasn't good at it, I at least felt like I knew the rules, and knew how it was supposed to work, and I saw many friends married off in the 10+ years I was in singles wards. And I just kept on holding on, waiting, doing and not doing the same things, and in a way that was easy. Easy, because that was what was expected of you, but lonely for sure.

Now that I've left the church, I find myself dating in what feels like a completely different world. A world I am THRILLED to be in, in so many ways. I have at least 5 close friends who are 30-ish single women who have recently left the church, and for this I feel very lucky to have people I can relate to. As my friends and I talk about navigating these new waters, we comment that we sometimes feel like teenagers, yet with more emotional maturity, creating an interesting dynamic.

I know that dating and understand the opposite sex is hard for many, whether you're both Mormon, or not religious at all. And there is no shortage of advice from people, books, and magazines. Whether it is old-fashioned game playing advice that feels disingenuous and manipulative, or the too optimistic "just tell him your feelings" from those who hope we are in a post-feminist world, or have just forgotten how difficult dating is, it is rarely simple. That, and it seems everyone is operating under different assumptions. Often it seems people take their experiences, which have been shaped by society, and generalize, saying that's how things have always been. I think that nowhere is this more apparent than in talk of gender. I recently read a fascinating book on marriage recently:

Marriage, a History: From Obedience to Intimacy, or How Love Conquered Marriage
by Stephanie Coontz


It started out with the beginnings of the history of marriage, and since I'm a history nerd, I loved it. She talked about how in the beginning people married to gain connections, mainly by the way of in-laws. This purpose remained number one for a long time. During this time period, men and women did have different roles, but both were responsible for contributing to the household for food and care. Since the book covers a lot of history in the West, I won't go into detail about all the changes which have taken place over time. But she basically explains how marriage started as something that was necessary in order to keep society together and was not related to love. As Europe and the U.S. became more industrial, women gained more power, and therefore had more options. Thus, a loving marriage become more of a goal as women gained greater independence, though marriages were still based on society's rules and acceptance. Coontz posits that in the past 30 years, marriage has changed more than it did in hundreds of years before. Marriage is no longer a sure thing in people's life or in signaling entrance into adulthood. Because both sexes have options for economic independence, sexuality, and acceptance outside of marriage, it is no longer a given. People have become less and less likely to stay in a marriage that is not satisfying. Though many family values advocates decry this as ruinous for society, Coontz takes a very pragmatic approach, that we can't turn back time and that changes are here to stay. She also talks about the many positives of the love-based marriage and its capacity for great closeness.

What struck me most about this book, and which hopefully brings it back to what I was talking about in the beginning about dating, is that one of the time periods I best identified with in this book was the 1900's. That's about when it was no longer acceptable to publicly say women were not as good as men, so they started saying women were just different, and better. Men and women have different roles and capabilities, and that each were better suited for certain activities, depending on their gender. Mens roles just happened to be the ones with the power. It all sounded very Proclamation on the Family to me.

I grew up in what is thought of as a traditional family, with my father working and my mother at home caring for the children, though this didn't really become "traditonal" till the 1950's. I think I've always been a bit conflicted with what I saw at home and was told was the right way, and what I saw and heard about others doing, both in the Mormon world and in society as a whole. While I heard what was supposedly acceptable in the world, non-traditional families, mothers working outside the home, pre-marital sex, it always seemed just something other people did. Though I think I always had an issue with pre-defined roles, I never knew how to articulate this, so I just lived with the ambiguity in myself, and tried to insert myself into the Mormon dating world, hoping it would eventually work for me. It didn't, and here I am trying to figure out a world I thought I didn't need to pay any attention to for most of my life.

One of the most positive things Coontz talks about is how most dating and marriage advice is out of date, because society is changing faster than can keep up. So all of those ideas about how the man must chase the woman, and what each is looking for in a partner are not neccessarily up to date. We still have many people willing to tell us advice based on old assumptions, though a lot more relationships are more equitable than this. So I continue on, not being a slave to my past, or others ideas; fumbling through the new world of dating and sex and relationships, and marriage. Maybe I'll figure out, maybe I won't, but at least I'm having a good time trying...

Chill

So I was all worried about the family vacation. The first day or so took some getting used to, and I found myself thinking, "What will we talk about?!? We're not having any deep conversations!" With my friends and cousins, I'm so accustomed to talking about EVERYTHING, and with my family, there just isn't that dynamic. It seemed to me a different life altogether, or maybe I was visiting a different country.

But then, after a day or two, (and a few phone calls to those people I really can talk to), I realized I had to accept the situation for what it was, and my family for who they are. They are really great people. I tried to stop wondering if they were secretly judging me for drinking coffee (my dad did whisper to someone that it smelled bad), or wearing tank tops (pretty sure they were jealous, they just wore their swim suits a lot instead). They didn't act at all judgemental, so why should I imagine they were? It was as if the conversation with my brother never happened. Which is okay. I didn't feel like I had to pretend, and no one made a big deal out of anything. We had a lot of fun, and honestly it was really nice and relaxing not having drama and discussing every detail of everything under the sun. I also really loved hanging out with my 14 month old nephew. I am not always into kids, but I love that little boy.

So a lot of worry over nothing, but I am feeling good about things.

Isn't there some sort of form letter for this?

In two days I am going on vacation with my family for a week. My very sweet, very Mormon family. My parents and sister and hubby all know I've left the church, but I haven't told my brother. And it's been like a year and a half. The thing is, I don't really think he'll take it that badly, I just think it will be a surprise. I can't quite explain why I haven't been able to make myself tell him. I rarely see him, and though we talk on the phone every few weeks, he usually seems quite busy with his family and life, and my life really never enters the conversation. Maybe because I'm single, it's hard to know what to say to me. This used to bother me more, but I have come to accept that if I want to have a relationship with him, it will be mostly on his terms.
But it has gotten ridiculous, because in 2 days we will be all staying in the same beach house. I will not be wearing garments, or likely even wearing things that would cover them up, because hopefully it will be warm weather. The second day is a Sunday, and my family will want to go to Sac. meeting, and I'm not going with them. So I KNOW that I need to say something, and am quite tired of pretending...but grrr...it's so hard. I know I'm not going to go a week without coffee, or alcohol, and I don't want to be reduced to drinking it out of a flask from my suitcase. And sure, I could just not say anything and have my bro and sis in law wonder, but I just feel like I can't be myself if I do that. My family has this status quo thing that is really strong. It is sometimes nice, as a lovely time seems to always be had by all, but makes it really difficult to bring up anything out of the ordinary. Conflict is rare, which means that when it happens it feels like such a big deal. So pretty much, I have to say something today. I am kicking myself for waiting for so long, but pretty much it's now or a really awkward family vacae. Which it may be anyway.

In my Easter bonnet

Easter Sunday a friend and I decided to go to a beautiful Episcopal church on Fifth Ave. I got dressed for church, in a way that I hadn't done in awhile, and felt like my church clothes were quite out of date. But looking like pink and yellow Easter eggs, to church we went. The church was beautiful. I have always absolutely loved other houses of worship, the feeling seems so much more serene than the Mormon ones have ever been for me.

During the service I found myself wishing I was raised in a "normal" religion. I enjoyed the music, I miss singing hymns. There was a lovely calm feeling, and I thought, maybe if I had been born into a church where church is a positive influence in life, but isn't so suffocating, maybe I could have remained in it. It seems to me that many churches, such as the Episcopal church, don't have so much guilt and fear-tactics that I feel like the LDS church has. Maybe it would have been nice to just have it be a part of your life, and not BE life itself, a place I didn't dare leave till I was 30.

I know some join other churches after leaving the LDS church, but that isn't for me. Examining my beliefs didn't just stop at the Mormon church and leave me with regular Christianity, but instead an entirely new outlook on life and meaning. Even though I thought the service was great, I just couldn't get into it the same way. While I still like Jesus, I no longer have the same feelings and thoughts about him that I used to. And that's okay, I'm happy where I am, I don't think you need religion for values or to be a good person.

After about an hour of wistfulness, the service began to drag on, and my most prominent thought was how happy I am I don't have to sit through boring church anymore.

What does 50/50 mean?

For the most part, I consider myself some sort of enlightened, non-traditional woman. I think one of the main reasons I didn't learn to cook much was because I was somehow scared of getting stuck into that role. I'm not sure why, I fully realize cooking is an amazing skill. In dating and thinking about what I want in marriage I've come up with all sorts of fair ideals, such as wanting a man to help out with the housework and me not wanting to change my name, if it ever came to that. Apparently I don't want a traditional role, but I'm not completely liberated either.

Now I find myself dating a guy who believes in 50/50, at least, I think, in terms of who pays for stuff. The first sign was when he let me pay for the tip on our first date. No big deal, of course, but still it hasn't been the norm. On our dates he's mostly paid, I've paid for a few things, but it has somehow felt a little more of a question than has usually been the case. His position became a little more clear when we were talking about exes and he started talking about his and how she wanted to go on vacation but didn't have money...so I don't know if this point was a deliberate illustration for me. It sounds like he's been burned in the past in this arena.

Last week we are watching TV and there was a commercial with a beautiful beach, and he was like "Let's go to Jamaica! Or somewhere warm!" No talk of money at this point, and I figured I could get us some deals with my flight benefits. Standby flights were all full because of the holiday weekend, so we looked at some package deals. I researched stuff on the computer for hours. Nothing was cheap and what we finally came up with ended up being more than I could personally pay, which I told him, and he said it was up to me, he understood either way, that he was under financial stresses (his way of saying he couldn't pay for any of my way), and that he was a 50/50 guy. I said that was fine, I understood, it was more than I could do, but maybe with more notice we could do something another time. I also attempted to explain a little bit of my situation-that I don't make much money, but that the benefits are worth it to me, to have the lifestyle I want, and to be able to travel for less, as well as helping others in this way too, though it didn't really work out that way this time.

So I'm just trying to figure out my feelings on the topic and what I think is fair and what I am comfortable with. The 50/50 ideal might be great if you are both single professionals and make a comparable amount of money. But what if one person makes 3X plus what the other makes? Is a 50/50 split fair in that case? Is it just too bad for the one who has chosen the job that doesn't make enough? Maybe in the beginning while 2 people are trying to figure out whether or not they want to be with each other 50/50 is okay. But isn't there a time, eventually when I becomes we? When you want the person you are with to enjoy things that maybe they couldn't enjoy on their own? Is that selfish of me, wanting to keep my low-paying job, and then merge finances with someone later, which would obviously be to my benefit financially?

I think there are other things that have equal value to money. I have no desire to be exactly like this, but in my parents marriage, my dad makes the money, my mom cooks, cleans, washes, etc, for him, so though she is not making actual money, she is still providing, just in a different way. If I spend hours planning a trip, shouldn't that count for something? But then if you're keeping track of 50/50, how do you not turn everything into a "what's it worth controversy"? Maybe it is too much for each person to just attempt to be generous in their own way. Maybe these kinds of conversations are normal to have, it just seems so awkward to me.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Experiences?

waxing and waning

Okay, okay I SUCK at blogging these days. I recently moved, and have had so much to do that I've been too busy to blog, and maybe because of this I've found myself less interested in Mormon-related things. My new apartment is so much better, and though I have a roommate and miss living alone in some ways, I think things will be good, once we figure out what to do with some of her more interesting decorating items-such as her table made of a dolphin sculpture.

A few highlights as of late:

I finally went to the OB-GYN for a check-up after not going for like 5-6 years. As a Mormon, I just felt like I didn't really have sexual parts, so it was really easy to ignore and avoid stuff like that. It's always a good time explaining to people outside of Utah that you are a 31 year old virgin. While she was um...doing her thing...she was asking me why I left, and I was explaining to her that I didn't believe it any more, as well as it's not that much fun to be 30, single and Mormon. She was very nice and didn't laugh at me at any point, though I think she felt less bad for me when she asked if I had fooled around and I said yes. I am also thinking of getting the Gardasil shots. Does anyone have any experience/knowledge about getting that past the typical age?

I got a Brazilian wax. This was very painful and may be my last. For some crazy reason I just wanted to try it, though I feel like it offends my feminist sensibilities. I guess I'm just trying to figure out what is normal in the real world.

I have been on a few dates with a seemingly decent guy, so maybe, just maybe that will go somewhere, who knows. We're going ice skating tonight.

I've been reading Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth." The first part of the book depressed and irritated me, probably because it was actually saying what I had been thinking for awhile. I realized I have felt some sadness over the loss of all my concrete ideas about the world. But as I have continued reading, I have come to terms a little more with my new thoughts. I have appreciated some of his ideas, which have helped me to develop a less negative view of religion, though I still can't see being a part of one myself.

Spiritual but not religious?

I went to the Unitarian Universalist church today. It was great to see a wide variety of people- straight couples, gay couples, single people, black, white, old young. Not that I was suprised, this is New York. Though the ward I went to in New York looked pretty much exactly like Utah singles wards. The atmosphere was unassuming, and leafing through their program, I found I could agree with all their principles, which was mostly about freedom and peace and not being dogmatic. I love all of this.

However, I just don't know if I am open to religion anymore. Any sort of ritual and shared experience out of the Mormon one feels so foreign and unnatural to me. And though I am familiar with the Mormon experience, there are too many things that feel wrong to me when I go there.

The sermon was okay, the reverend talked about America and Barack Obama and how far we have come, and it was nice to relive some of those moments. She also talked with pride about some past Unitarian ministers and leaders and some of their progressive views, but while I can appreciate their contributions, I don't want to be their disciples.

Part of me wants to get stirred up in the excitement of it all, and actually feel something, but the other part of me doesn't want to get suckered into anything that isn't real.

I find myself reluctant to join anything, to give myself a concrete identity in this way. Reading the Power of Now affected me a lot, which talks about not needing labels and not basing your identity on this. For so long, I "knew" stuff, and before I would allow myself to fully think, I looked at my Mormon identity, to try and fit everything together. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't, but I think I like just being me. Mormonism defined me for so long that I am amazed by the freedom I have now to not put myself into a box.

I know there can be a sense of community at church and I think that this is something I miss, though I haven't really felt it for a long time. I wonder though if maybe I can find that in some other volunteer organization, where I don't have to be "religious." I understand how religion can work for some, and I think if it is not harmful that is great. But for me, I think maybe I need to look in other areas and create my own space.